1 (edited by tonygamble 2018-04-05 16:40:28)

Topic: Resize on input degrades ?

This is much on the same theme of my nearby thread on 'larger' images.

I've been reading through earlier posts on this forum and same across someone asking about embedded EXIF and what happens when you 'resize'.

He was going to drop his jpgs down to 1024x768.

I decided to import some jpgs (4640x3472) without the resize box ticked and I am amazed at how much sharper and more vibrant my large images are. Ticking the resize box does make them less crisp and reduced the colours.

Are there any other 'tricks' around that I can follow in the quest for the the 'best' large images?

EDIT. But doing this means one has to make the watermark much bigger if you use one !!

Tony

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

I decided to import some jpgs (4640x3472) without the resize box ticked and I am amazed at how much sharper and more vibrant my large images are. Ticking the resize box does make them less crisp and reduced the colours.

If you choose to not resize your images (by deselecting the 'Resize Images' checkbox), then JuiceboxBuilder will simply copy your source images across to the gallery's 'images' folder.
Your original 4640px x 3472px images will undoubtedly look better then resized 1024 x 768px images but, when online, they will take much longer to load (as they will have a much larger filesize).
Getting your images to be the right size is a bit of a balancing act and a compromise needs to be reached between the image filesize (so that it is not too large for web gallery use) and quality.
Try resizing your images but with a higher resolution and a quality greater than 80%. A bit of trial and error might be required to reach a resolution/quality/filesize that you are happy with.

I've been reading through earlier posts on this forum and same across someone asking about embedded EXIF and what happens when you 'resize'.

Incidentally, resized images do not retain any metadata (EXIF or IPTC) so if you want your gallery images to retain their original metadata, you'll need to resize them in an imaging program such as Adobe Photoshop or GIMP (a program that is capable of retaining metadata whilst resizing) and then feed the images to JuiceboxBuilder-Pro with the 'Resize Images' checkbox deselected (to ensure that the images are not resized again).

EDIT. But doing this means one has to make the watermark much bigger if you use one !!

That is correct. A watermark embedded into a large image which is then dynamically scaled down to fit within the gallery's image area will look smaller than the same watermark embedded into a smaller image which does not need to be dynamically scaled down.

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

I see what you mean about the images loading slowly when they are as large as 4640x3472.

I don't think I see enough difference on my PC or tablet in terms of sharpness to justify the lack of response.

However I do see quite a difference when I convert my RAWs to 1024x768 jpgs and do not let JuiceBox do any resize. I'll put a couple of comparisons on my server so you can see. The colours are more saturated and certainly they are sharper.

I could not see any difference when I ticked the Large Images in the Change Sizes option.

Tony

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

However I do see quite a difference when I convert my RAWs to 1024x768 jpgs and do not let JuiceBox do any resize. I'll put a couple of comparisons on my server so you can see. The colours are more saturated and certainly they are sharper.

It sounds like post-processing your images manually and then feeding them to JuiceboxBuilder-Pro (with the 'Resize Images' checkbox deselected) would be the best way to go for your own scenario.

I could not see any difference when I ticked the Large Images in the Change Sizes option.

You are likely not seeing the 'large' images in your gallery.
As your gallery is always displayed in Small Screen Mode, the 'large' images will be used only when images are opened in new tabs via the 'Open Image' button.
In Small Screen Mode, 'small' or 'medium' images (but never 'large' images) are used for the main gallery display, depending on image availability (whether or not 'small' images have been generated) and the screen being used to view the gallery (regular vs retina).
The logic that Juicebox uses to determine which image size to use is noted in the Multi-Size Image support section.

5 (edited by tonygamble 2018-04-06 11:13:15)

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

Am I not creating 'large' images when I put 1920 by 1080 in that Medium box?

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Re: Resize on input degrades ?

Sorrry. We are starting to run two similar threads.

Do you want to lock one?

It might make it easier for you.

T

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

Am I not creating 'large' images when I put 1920 by 1080 in that Medium box?

By 'small', 'medium and 'large', I am referring to the SMALL, MEDIUM and LARGE image sizes generated by JuiceboxBuilder-Pro (rather than the actual dimensions of any particular image size set).
When you "put 1920 by 1080 in that Medium box", then, using my noation above, you would be creating 'medium' images (no matter what image dimensions you set).
Maybe I should have used SMALL, MEDIUM and LARGE rather than 'small', 'medium' and 'large', but I hope that this helps to clarify things.

Do you want to lock one?

OK. I'll lock the other forum thread and we can continue the conversation here.

8 (edited by tonygamble 2018-04-07 11:32:50)

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

Thanks.

I have to admit Steven that the difference between the three words in upper or lower case escapes me. I must have read the instruction manual a dozen times over the last week and I still don't understand how the system works. Juicebox as a product is brilliant but when "LARGE" and "large" become importantly different I struggle.

For example when you and I first met less than two weeks ago you pointed me to a screen mode called Small so I could fill my thumbnail page with nothing but thumbs. It suited me because when I hit a thumbnail it produced a large image. You may call this a LARGE image or it may be, in your terminology a MEDIUM or a medium image. There you lose me. Why the screen mode is called small is a mystery when it produces 'big' pictures - but one that does not worry me.

Maybe sometime I may see the light - but in the meantime I want to muddle along with a Preset that gives me a good compromise of sharp colourful images that load comfortably on a relatively basic phone, tablet or PC. I'll stay the course and follow other posts in this forum and gradually I'll learn the niceties of the system,

Can you take a look at these two snips and let me know if I have chosen the best settings for my needs?

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9 (edited by tonygamble 2018-04-07 10:45:54)

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

And this.

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10 (edited by tonygamble 2018-04-08 05:17:07)

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

In fact I can see a difference if I change the jpg compression to 99 from 80

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Re: Resize on input degrades ?

I have to admit Steven that the difference between the three words in upper or lower case escapes me. I must have read the instruction manual a dozen times over the last week and I still don't understand how the system works. Juicebox as a product is brilliant but when "LARGE" and "large" become importantly different I struggle.

JuiceboxBuilder-Pro is capable of generating three different image sizes (so that Juicebox can display the most appropriate size depending on the device being used to view the gallery). We call these 3 sizes SMALL, MEDIUM and LARGE in the 'Set Image Sizes' control panel as the SMALL set of images will be used when the gallery is displayed on small screen devices (mobile devices) and the LARGE set of images will be used when the gallery is displayed on large screen devices (desktop computers). This is not strictly true (the actual logic is noted here) but it gives you an idea what the 3 images sizes are for. There is no need to display a LARGE image (wasting bandwidth and taking longer to load) when a SMALL image will do.

For example when you and I first met less than two weeks ago you pointed me to a screen mode called Small so I could fill my thumbnail page with nothing but thumbs.

I suggested using Small Screen Mode as it is the only way to have thumbnails and main images on separate pages. However, as I have mentioned, Small Screen Mode was designed for small screen devices (to give the main images more room to be displayed on mobile devices where screen real estate is usually limited) which is why SMALL images will be used if they have been generated.

Take another look at these two support sections and hopefully things will fall into place.
Screen Modes: https://www.juicebox.net/tour/gallery/#screen-modes
Multi-Size Image Support: https://www.juicebox.net/support/multisize/

Can you take a look at these two snips and let me know if I have chosen the best settings for my needs?

Your screenshots show that:
(1) The 'Resize Images' checkbox is deselected
(2) The 'Use Watermark' checkbox is selected

As the 'Resize Images' checkbox is deselected, JuiceboxBuilder-Pro will not resize your source images (so the 'Max Width' and 'Max Height' in the 'Set Image Sizes' control panel are ignored).

However, because the 'Use Watermark' checkbox is selected, JuiceboxBuilder-Pro does need to process the images (to add the watermark) so the 'Quality' setting is used when the new watermarked images are generated.
If you find that your gallery images are not of a high enough quality, then try increasing the 'Quality' from its default value of 80 to something higher. Maybe try 90 instead. Above 90, the law of diminishing returns usually kicks in, giving little visual quality improvement but increasing the filesize significantly. However, trial and error will likely allow you to achieve the best balance between quality and filesize.

Also, as the the 'Resize Images' checkbox is deselected, there will be only one set of images in your gallery (technically the MEDIUM images but don't worry about what they are called... they can be whatever resolution you want them to be) which will be used under all circumstances.

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

Thank you again, Steven,

I am getting to understand what the system is doing.

If I ask it to create a LARGE image it will use it “when opening image in a new window or when gallery is expanded.” I understand the new window but what do you mean about the gallery being expanded? I can’t see myself wanting the LARGE option but I might as well learn what it is for whilst this thread is active.

If I ask for a SMALL image you use it when the web folder is viewed on a small screen device and it has smaller pixel dimensions so it loads faster. Yes? In my case even loading my MEDIUM images on to a phone has never caused a problem – so I guess SMALL images are not for me (either).

With neither tick box for LARGE or SMALL being ticked I seem to be producing ‘images’ and ‘thumbnails’. Calling those ‘images’ MEDIUM creates a contradiction for me when your help page says “MEDIUM - Used in Large Screen Mode.” My web site is a Small Screen Mode website and it uses those MEDIUM images with no problem.

I wish I had never read those six words above because, as you said at the end of the last message “there will be only one set of images in your gallery (technically the MEDIUM images but don't worry about what they are called... they can be whatever resolution you want them to be) which will be used under all circumstances.”

Maybe I am the only person who has found this confusing but might it not help if you explained somewhere that the folder called ‘images’ contained multi purpose ones always and that it would have sub folders for LARGE and SMALL if requested.

Anyway I reckon we have done this topic to death now – and bored all your other more experienced users.

Yes, I had forgotten that adding the watermark necessitates processing. I will drop my 99% down to 90% and I admit that the original 80% was hard to differ from my new 99%.

Many thanks again. You have been very patient.

Tony

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

Many thanks again. You have been very patient.

You're welcome.

Here are some notes which might help to clarify a couple of things further.

I understand the new window but what do you mean about the gallery being expanded?

If a gallery is embedded in an existing web page alongside other content, then it can be expanded to fill the browser window.
Try expanding this sample gallery by clicking the Expand Button on the gallery's Button Bar (the 2nd icon from the left).
If a gallery has dimensions of 100% x 100% and is on a web page of its own, then the only way a gallery can be expanded is if you set useFullscreenExpand="TRUE" (in JuiceboxBuilder-Pro's 'Customize -> Lite' section), in which case the gallery will be expanded to fill the entire screen (as long as the browser supports the Fullscreen API) rather than just the browser window.
Incidentally, useFullscreenExpand="TRUE" can be used on embedded and full page galleries.

If I ask for a SMALL image you use it when the web folder is viewed on a small screen device and it has smaller pixel dimensions so it loads faster. Yes?

That's the basic premise, yes, but more specifically, SMALL images (if available) will be used for the gallery's main images if the gallery is displayed in Small Screen Mode (i.e. if screenMode="AUTO" and the gallery is being viewed on a mobile device or if screenMode="SMALL").

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

Thanks Steven.

I get wiser by the day - as far as Juicebox is concerned but you need to ask my wife about the rest of my life !!

I can't see myself embedding for my current needs but I see what you mean.

As regards SMALL images I am finding the normal ones load plenty fast enough so I won't be bothering.

Tony

Re: Resize on input degrades ?

I'm glad you're getting on well with Juicebox-Pro and that you've been able to reach a suitable resolution/quality/filesize combo for your images.
Thank you for letting me know.